6. Is God Logical or Is Atheism Logical?

 

 

Exercises on the Logic of God

Theist vs. Atheist Debate

 

Mike Skeptic and Joe Christian meet for coffee to talk about old days of high-school and the neighborhood, but they canít help going back to their discussion about Truth, Morality and God. 

Joe Christian: So Mike have you thought about the whole religion thing?  Where do you stand as far that is concerned?

Mike Skeptic:  Joe you couldnít just let a sleeping dog lie?  But since you bring it up, now I have to talk about it.  And I thought we were just going to have a cup of coffee and relive the old days.   Joe I know you are nice guy and everything, but be honest with me, do you really believe there is some God out there directing the world and universe?

Joe:  Mike I understand you are skeptical, so was I....until I really examined the evidence.  Just like you I was raised without really looking at the evidence for the existence of God.   Remember we were in the same classes at school, we learned the same things, but we really never had the chance to hear the other side of the story.  We were taught life emerged from a primordial soup, after the Big Bang, billions of years ago.   It was taught like its absolute fact!

Mike: Joe it is fact!  Listen all the great minds, scientists and professors have proven evolution is fact...  Reasonable people, who have looked at all the evidence, can show God does not exist.  God is the creation of man, Joe I am not trying to be mean, but you are in a fantasy world.

Joe Christian Ok Mike, do mind if I ask you some questions about your ďFactsĒ?  First do you know how old the universe is?   Second, was there a point in time when the universe came into existence or did it always exit?

Mike Skeptic: To answer your questions, there are several theories on how old the universe it, if I recall from reading National Geographic, I think they said the Universe is about 17-Billion years old.  Regarding the universe coming into existence, I guess if you think its 17-Billion years old, it means it came into existence that long ago.

Joe:  Good so we both agree there was a point when the universe began,  I think if you do the research you will find this is the conclusion of scientific discovery[1], not religion.   The point is there was a starting point; Science calls it a Big Bang.  The problem for the Atheist is this, what was the cause of the Big Bang?  Do you know Mike?

Mike:  What do you mean what was the cause?  It just happened, the Universe exploded into existence, period! End of story.  Then the galaxies formed from the mater, Solar systems and our planet.  Out of all this life just formed when the right chemicals came together.

Joe:  Mike, Mike if it only so simple!  So you believe the Universe just happened!  End of story!  Wow, that takes a lot of faith.  Everything has a cause, what was the cause of the Universe.  The cause is always greater then the effect.  But you are telling me it just happened.  Have you ever asked yourself, how matter and the universe just appeared out of nothing?  One day there was nothing and BANG.... The Universe just appears.  Do you really believe that? 

Mike:  Well there are several theories on the cause of the universe, I will look into it and get back with you.

Joe: Mike you still need to explain the cause,  Did you know Einstein when he realized the Universe had a starting point, had real problems, because he understood the theological implications.  If the universe is finite, it means there was a starting point, and the cause is always greater then the effect.  You canít just ignore the logic of cause, and say it just happened.

Mike No body really knows, how it all happened. 

Joe:  Well, then thatís why its important to examine the evidence, where does the evidence point?  The evidence in life, points in the same direction as the universe.  The complexity of life, requires a creator or first cause.

Mike:  Now hold on hear Joe, science clearly proves life came up out the primordial soup.

Joe:  Mike I think if you do the research, you will find Science does not demonstrate evolution, in the sense you are referring to.  The evidence of design is overwhelming.  When Darwin developed his theory, in 1800ís he had no clue how complex a cell is. 

Mike: Joe that is what science is about, discovering.  And all science affirms Darwinís theory.

Joe:  Thatís not the case Mike, the complexity of the simplest cell is beyond anything, Darwin could have ever imagined.  In fact, when science searches the heavens for intelligent life, they look for codeís which point toward intelligence.  For example did you know the cell has a literal language which allows it to communicate to itself.  It has an alphabet composed of 4 Ėnitrogen bases.

Mike: We all know life is complex, thatís why it took billions of years to develop.  Over time life made adaptations, to evolve into more intelligent form.

Joe:  Mike what you say is based on faith, not evidence.  The odds of life coming from non-life are virtually impossible, when you consider all the factors involved, from the cause of the universe, the formation of the planets, and just what is required for life, even the simplest cell, any logical person will conclude the only logical cause for the universe and life is God.

Mike:  Well Joe you have given me a lot to think about.  Letís talk again.

 

 Discussion Exercises

 

Play the role of both the Atheist and Theist

 

Christian

Atheist/Agnostic

Dialogue 1

 

1.a Hi! What is your name?____________________

 

 

Dialogue 2

 

2a. Well its nice to meet you____________, I know you donít believe God exists, but can I ask you a few questions?

 

Dialogue 3

 

3a.   Where do you think the Universe came from?

 

( The Christianís goal here is to unveil the source of the Atheists thinking, helping them see they have faith...and they donít even know it)

 

 

Dialogue 4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4a.  ____________   So where did the Big Bang come from?  What was there before the Big Bang?

 

 

(The Christian goal is to make the Atheist think of the logic of their belief.  If the world came out of nothing,  is that logical?  Do things appear out of nothing?)

 

 

Dialogue 5

 

 

 

 

5a  So, you know their is ďNo GodĒ but you donít know where the Universe came from?  Hmmmm

So sounds like you have faith, since you canít really prove either...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1.b Hi my name is _______________  What is yours?____________

 

 

 

2b.  Sure, I love questions.

 

 

 

 

 

3b.  Well I think the Big Bang is what science teaches us is the cause of the Universe.  I know you guys think God created it.

 

(Many atheists do not realize the dilemma of a finite universe, which has a start date, the obvious conclusion is they need to accept a Universe which appeared out of nothing)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4b. Well there could be an oscillating universe, parallel universe, we really donít know but that is what science is looking for.

 

(Atheists canít explain a cause to the universe other then speculate)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5. Neither can you!  you canít prove your God exists, you are just hoping

 

 

 

 


 

[1] At this point, Mike Christian can refer to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (Entropy), Expanding Universe, Red Shift, and COBE  Explorer to prove this point but he holds fire.